Culloden

[wullie m]

The Earl of Cromartie managed to raise 800 of the clan with difficulty, much resistance from his own tenants in Easter Ross, the Earl of Seaforth had only had his estates restored in 1741, so wasn't "out", this deprived the Jacobites of 3,000 men, neither was Mackenzie of Gairloch. The clan had surrendered their arms to General Wade at a parade at Brahan in 1720. The Mackenzies of Fairburn & Coul joined Cromartie, I think Scatwell was forced out at gunpoint.....wullie m

[DreadGod]

The Mackenzies under the command of the Earl of Cromartie fought at the Battle of Falkirk in 1746, where they were victorious because the English ran away.

After that battle they moved north and attacked the lands of the Clan Munro, most of whom were away in various British regiments supporting the government. They even destroyed Munro's Foulis Castle.

After that the Mackenzie's under Cromartie went further north to Sutherland. The Earl of Sutherland, escaped through a back door of Dunrobin Castle and sailed south to join the Duke of Cumberland. However after this as Cromaartie's force was moving south they were ambushed by the Clan Sutherland in what became known as the Battle of Littleferry where the Mackenzie's were defeated. The Earl of Cromartie himself was taken prisoner soon after at Dunrobin Castle by the Mackays who supported the government.

So the Jacobite Mackenzies never made it to the Battle of Culloden.

[wullie m]

DD, the English never ran away at the Battle of Falkirk, the British Army did! assisted by the Glasgow Volunteers. There were probably more Scots on the Government side at Culloden than with with Jacobites opposite.
wullie m.

[Paratus]

Originally Posted by wullie m

There were probably more Scots on the Government side at Culloden than with with Jacobites opposite.
wullie m.

This is disputed by Murray Pittock (The Myth Of The Jacobite Clans, Second Edition, P 73).
"Lord Elcho estimated that there were 2,400 Scots in Cumberland's Army, including 600 Campbell militia; the Cumberland papers give 2,284. Both figures are less than half the Jacobite force on the battlefield"

[DreadGod]

Originally Posted by wullie m

DD, the English never ran away at the Battle of Falkirk, the British Army did! assisted by the Glasgow Volunteers. There were probably more Scots on the Government side at Culloden than with with Jacobites opposite.
wullie m.

Yes your quite right the "British Army" ran away. The reason I said English was because I was thinking of the Scotsman; Sir Robert Munro, 6th Baronet he had been given command of the English 37th regiment who ran away at Falkirk and as a result he was surrounded and killed. (Although he did kill some Jacobites first).

As for the Scots at Culloden there were the following regiments:

*Highland Battalion (of Clan Campell) commanded by John Campbell, 5th Duke of Argyll.
*The 1st Regiment of Foot, otherwise known as the Royal Scots. Commanded by John Ramsay.
*The 21st Regiment of Foot otherwise known as Royal Scots Fusiliers commanded by Charles Colville.
*The 25th Regiment of Foot otherwise known as the King's Own Scottish Borderers. commanded by David Cunynghame.

Its also worth noting that of Kerr's Dragoons, Kerr himself was a Scott of the Clan Kerr obviously and a Captain Cunningham was in command of the British artillery.

[wullie m]

I think Guys, accurate figures for who lined up on the Jacobite side that day are somewhat problematic! the fiasco of the night march to Nairn, leading to exhausted & starving men, falling out/asleep or setting off in search of food. Some slept through the battle and were awakened by the bayonet. The Muster Rolls are suspect. The British Army had Scots in regiments other than those regarded as Scottish, then & now, and Scotland punched above its weight as regards personnel, the Navy even more so(Trafalgar for example was practically a Scottish victory). I have read differently as regards numbers Scots on each side, and the Irish/French on the Rebel side tend to even this. Culloden was just the tail end of a century long, intermittent Civil War, started by Charles I's imposition of Anglican forms on the Kirk. The Stuart's, once they inherited the English throne, brought nothing but trouble to their native land. They were told they had Divine Rights and made head of the Church of England, this went "Tae their Heids" and ordinary people in the three Kingdoms paid the price of their stupidity. The French Kings used the Stuarts as it suited and got shot of them the same way,(Bonnie Prince Charlie was trussed up like a chicken and bundled out of France, when his presence became an embarassment-they did use silk cords). We have been mired in Jacobite Romance ever since. Had a Feudal system wherebye some Chief ordered his clansmen to take up arms (or forced them in many instances) against the King, when the country was at war, any place in the mid 18th century. Of course not, as the people found to their cost and ruination. DD, I don't think the Duke of Argyll was at the battle.
wullie m.

[DreadGod]

Aswell as there being a large number of Scots in the British Army at Culloden there was even an Irish regiment, who fought for the British!: the 27th (Inniskilling) Regiment of Foot.