jacobites

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Originally posted by sgriobhadair
Oh aye, SJ. Try th'ither ane -- it haz bells oan it! Ah believe it all sepfer thi Morris Dancers. Thi nerve! Send thi bastarts back tae England. Ah bloody hate Morris Dancers!

Hwileamatit, whit thifux a mhastaig, and why the accusative case forbye?

(Note the mid-sentence switch to Morningside.) [/b]

Akerbeltz.org defines "a mhastaig" as "you *****, scumbag! (applied to women)

"and why the accusative case forbye?"

???

We've been thinking of beating the Morris dancers as well, and your post has convinced me that it is the only logical thing to do.

I can hardly wait for this Feb. 30th to come. I think I'll start drinkin' on the 29th.

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Originally posted by Polwarth
SJ
I'm only trying to ensure that all these 'ancient' Scottish practices are explained as modern, American practices!!! That sort of thing wouldn't go down too well here - considering that many names in Scotland have neither tartans or claims on clans - and presumably the descendants of said un-clanned, un-tartaned people are some of those who take part in the Kirkin hingmy.......! I rest my case!

You almost had me believing in your faradiddle - but like SG - I believe the Morris Dancers were an embroidery too far there....

Point taken, although where I come from the Scottish descendants are virtually all of Highland stock. MacDonald is the most common name in Nova Scotia. Our services also contained Frasers, Camerons, MacKays, MacPhersons, MacMillans, Beatons etc. I am going to consult a RC Priest aquaintance of mine who's ancestors, like my own, came from the shores of Loch Lochy. He has done a lot of research on our customs, and I'd like to hear his take on this one. Did it have any precedent in the Highlands?

It is also true as well that many of Scottish extraction assume that all Scots wore tartan kilts, spoke gaelic, fought at Culloden ...

In modern society, at least in North America, Scottish Culture is assumed to be Highland Culture.

Americans have created all kinds of cultural things - Chinese eggrolls were invented in New York. Pizza, in its modern form, is far more American than Italian. I'm sure many cultures look at "their" Cultural gatherings in North America and smile.

There are some where there is a strong unbroken connection to the original settlers. The Antigonish Highland Games in Nova Scotia were started in 1863, and in addition to the traditional heavy events, dancing and piping, it also was an agricultural fair. The fair eventually split off to form its own event, but the games continue to this day, and are probably as close to a Scottish games as you will find in North America.

[sgriobhadair]

Originally posted by Polwarth SG
Morningside? Away.... You widnae ken Morningside if it lept up an bit you.... Now, some of us certainly would ken Morningside... [/b]

Au contraire, missus. Ah huv been bit by Morningside. A very pleasant experience it wiz tae, tho no wan tae menshun tae Mrs Sgriobhadair.

[sgriobhadair]

Originally posted by SherbrookeJacobite

Akerbeltz.org defines "a mhastaig" as "you *****, scumbag! (applied to women)

[/i][/b]

Oh, it's in the bhocataibh case! Shooda sed!

[Polwarth]

I know quite a bit about Nova Scotia, JS.

As for the kirkin thingmy.... Nope, I've never heard that such a thing was done during proscription. However, if an RC priest did such a thing, then maybe it is true. Mind you, it is often cited in many of the explanations (mainly on American sites) that such was the case.... However, I wonder if it is a bit like other romantic highland myths? Many families in the highlands were Church of Scotland or Episcopalian by the time of proscription.... My family, however, was Catholic! My Dad's explanation was that the area we came from was so mountainous and lawless that the Reformation just passed us by! I'm not sure that's true, but a bit like the story you hear about RC priests, it all adds to the romanticism of the highlander...

My family are highlanders.

I have no other bloodlines except Scottish (well, OK... in recorded times... who knows what Viking, Norman or Irish bloodlines may be there in the very dim and distant past!) I've always been lucky enough to know where my ancestors are buried. Most of them are no more than a few miles away - others less than 100 miles away! It certainly means that finding out family history is much, much easier for me. The fact that the bloodlines are all within Scotland certainly helps, too

BTW, family members were at Culloden. The Jacobites did us no favours, we lost lands etc (yes, my family were on the Jacobites' side!)

[Edited by Polwarth on 14th November 2004 at 23:05]

[SherbrookeJacobite]

Originally posted by Polwarth
I know quite a bit about Nova Scotia, JS.

Glad to hear It!

[/i]

As for the kirkin thingmy.... Nope, I've never heard that such a thing was done during proscription. However, if an RC priest did such a thing, then maybe it is true. Mind you, it is often cited in many of the explanations (mainly on American sites) that such was the case.... However, I wonder if it is a bit like other romantic highland myths? Many families in the highlands were Church of Scotland or Episcopalian by the time of proscription.... My family, however, was Catholic! My Dad's explanation was that the area we came from was so mountainous and lawless that the Reformation just passed us by! I'm not sure that's true, but a bit like the story you hear about RC priests, it all adds to the romanticism of the highlander... [/quote]

I was just wondering if perhaps it did happen, maybe in an isolated region - or it could be just another romantic myth. I haven't heard back from my RC Priest friend yet. he is very well read, and has spent quite a lot of time in the Highlands (he was Parish Priest over there for several years), so I will be interested to hear if he knows of any of the history of it.

My family was Presbyterian, and also at Culloden. Often you hear that it was a religious struggle (the '45), but my own family were Presbyterians, following an Episcopalian Chief, in the service of a Catholic Monarch


My family are highlanders.

I have no other bloodlines except Scottish (well, OK... in recorded times... who knows what Viking, Norman or Irish bloodlines may be there in the very dim and distant past!) I've always been lucky enough to know where my ancestors are buried. Most of them are no more than a few miles away - others less than 100 miles away! It certainly means that finding out family history is much, much easier for me. The fact that the bloodlines are all within Scotland certainly helps, too

BTW, family members were at Culloden. The Jacobites did us no favours, we lost lands etc (yes, my family were on the Jacobites' side!)

[Edited by Polwarth on 14th November 2004 at 23:05] [/quote]

I know what you mean when you say the Jacobites did you no favours. It is easy to see what went wrong in hindsight, but in their defence they believed in what they were fighting for (at least some of them did), and had they been successful, things would have turned out much differently. In any case their support of the Stuarts did not justify the genocide that happened after Culloden - the Hanoverian forces did not discriminate between the Jacobites, those who remained neutral, or even those who had been loyal to Geordie.

I am envious of your ability to know where your ancestors are. I have spent years researching mine - and have been able to trace them back to the 16th century with some degree of certainty. It has been a lot of work, but also great fun.
My family remained in one place after they came to Canada around 1851 - so I know where all my new world ancestors are - but in the confusion that surrounded the clearances, I don't know where my ggggrandfather wound up. The last time I have a record of him was the census of 1841, and he was 55 years old. Sometime in the next few years they were put off the land they had farmed for about 200 years (by Andrew Belford - of Fort William Hospital fame). I have only been able to track my gggrandfather and two of his brothers - the rest of the family disappeared.

Some of the other branches of my family I have been able to trace, and some run into dead ends. Most of them go back to Scotland - but there are a few which do not.

I'll let you know if my Priest friend has any insights into the tartan Kirkin thingy.

Slainte

[Polwarth]

SJ
I understand it is very, very difficult to trace back before the late 1500s... record keeping for the ordinary person (rather than nobility or church people) not being quite as good as nowadays (!) and lots of parish records lost through fire, floods and general damage.

I wish you luck with your research - but it is a hard road....