Social History of Scotland

[JohnBearcat]

No ones seems to have been interested in Victorian Social History of Scotland,may I say its a great subject,its amazing the things that can be found out about the history of our Grandparents never mind what happened centuries ago,
which dont really effect us from such a long time ago,What happened in your Grandfathers day relates to you more than whether Wallace was a hero or not,I started taking an interest in Victorian Scotland in early 1970s when I started digging in old dumps for old bottles and pot lids,
its a great subject investigating all the different companys and all the little stories that are attched to each item,example in old refuge tips of the area of central Fife, most items dug are HP Sauce and Coffee Bottles, and old Miners Tallow lamps,they must have spent entire life eating chips and drinking coffee and amount of black beer bottles found was unbelievable, and each one of these items are all either blown by man or by a machine, and you noticed all bottles that were hand blown they had many air bubbles in them showing that the maker was short of breath that morning maybe drunk to much the night before,and then we had the bottles that were covered in ribbings this was Poison bottles because in dark of houses one would need to know which bottles were what and ribs told you it was a poison bottle,I liked the small blue bottles that had embossed on them Nurse Ednas Cough cure for Children contains no narcotics, in the richer tips of the gentry there would be a great many pot lids and some made by Prattware, Highly engraved with paintings each to attract the customers,then the ordinary Bears Grease which gentlemen
used on their heads like a pomade,and each one was made by maybe a local chemist, the most popular of Scotland was Napiers of Edinburgh, Herbal mixtures,I would suggest if you wish to know along these lines please read about the Victorian social History of Scotland,,The History of the Pop bottle find out why kids collected the marbles from pop bottles, and how some bottles were used as ballast on ships of old, and how many bottles are worth thousands of pounds, example one bottle embossed in thistles company name was Dixons of Lieth whisky, one empty glass bottle sold for $20,000 in 1978, extremely rare to find, in fact some rare old stone ginger beers can fetch as much as £1000, so get digging, there still there,lots of victorian dumps hold antiques of Yesterday and you will learn lots of History,

[East_Side_Guy]

I'm in the middle of reading a book called How the Scots Invented the Modern World by Arthur Herman. It's a brilliant social history of Scotland and how it's intelectuals were the driving force in the development of Great Britain. It was Scots who actually invented the notion of social history and the social sciences such as anthropology, sociology and natural history. And it's not dry like many history books. Herman writes in a way that makes it exciting so you can't put it down.

[Polwarth]

I bought the book - tried reading it, but gave up!

The book was discussed here recently (maybe on the Lit Forum, can't be sure!) - and the concensus view was that most of the antis were native Scots who felt the book wasn't really worth its costs! However, a number of US citizens wrote in praise of it...

If you really want to learn about Scotland and its history, try Prof T C Smout's book The Scottish People... brilliant scholarship, easy to read and no Jacobitism!

Glad to hear you got your dual nationality. Welcome to Scotland!

[East_Side_Guy]

Hi Polwarth,

I'll try looking for the thread where Herman's book was discussed. I've read other histories of Scotland and find most of them somewhat dry. Do you remember what the pros and cons of the book were? I think the book is brilliant. As a matter of fact, it was recommended to me by my Scottish mother who is an avid reader of non-fiction.

[Polwarth]

I can only speak for myself - but I found it irritating.... It was written from a very skewed perspective - and I seem to remember that some of the 'facts' were historically incorrect!!!!

I wish I could quote instances, but I'm afraid I didn't keep the book.

All I know is that the native Scots in the discussion were 'agin' it, but the American readers thought it was wonderful!!!

The discussion may have been on this forum, not lit - I'm sorry that I can't remember which one it was. I'll have a quick squint and see it I can find it for you.

Soooo, when are you thinking of coming over to Scotland then?


ESG - here's the thread http://www.scotland.com/forums/showt...threadid=14685

[East_Side_Guy]

Hi Polwarth,

I's interesting that Americans liked it but native Scots didn't. I've read a lot of Scottish history and I find it refreshing that some things in it I can't find discussed anywhere else. However, the jury is still out because I haven't finished reading it. I'll check out the one you recommended.

I'm not sure when I'll be visiting the UK again. Maybe Christmas time. They all visit the USA often too. I'm close to my family there and I visit as often as possible. The last time I was in Scotland I surprised my auntie who was in the hospital and very ill. It was the last time I saw her before she died so I'm glad I went at that time. Some in my family moved to London so if I have the time and energy I'll get to Glasgow and London.

[Monco]

Originally posted by Polwarth
I can only speak for myself - but I found it irritating.... It was written from a very skewed perspective - and I seem to remember that some of the 'facts' were historically incorrect!!!!

I wish I could quote instances, but I'm afraid I didn't keep the book.

All I know is that the native Scots in the discussion were 'agin' it, but the American readers thought it was wonderful!!!

I don't know what you mean by 'skewed historical perspective', or which facts you thought were inaccurate, but its not correct to say that on the thread the critics of the book were Scots, and its enthusiast American.

Looking back over the thread, the books Scottish praisers and detractor are two on each side. Andy-J2 and myself liked it, while Steaphan and anonnymoose didn't like it. And you didn't like it either, though you only said that you "only skimmed through it.....", so I am not sure how familiar you are with it, possibly 3-2 against.

I think whether or not you like the book largely depends on how you see Scotland and its history. If you take a positive view of Scotland and its undoubtedly impressive contribution to the modern world, then you would probably like the book, and vice versa. Steaphan say's "why should I, a free-thinking ordinary Scot, commit any talents that I might have to maintaining this monarchist system that saps the lifeblood from our country? There is absolutely no way in hell - and if that means being a low-paid, menial worker for the rest of my life, then so be it."

Now whether or not poor Steaphan is holding his talents back in protest at the current political system I don't know, but it is a good indication of where he is coming from in relation to this book. Herman does argue that it was only through the strength Scotland gained via the union that it was ever able to make its contribution to the modern world.

Certainly the book isn't perfect, or the greatest book ever written. Herman overstates his case a bit, and doesn't dwell on the darker aspects like the fact that the Scots created the Klu Klux Klan etc. But for all the books faults it is still a pretty good account of how Scottish ideas and people shaped the modern world.