What about britishness?

[Fede_Scott]

I need your help!
I'm an italian student, I will soon graduate with a thesis about sir walter scott, who, you know, was not only a writer but also a scottish patriot. but he believed in the Union of 1707 and in the importance of Great Britain. now, what I'd like to understand, is: how do you - you scotch and english - feel like about britishness today?
it's very important to me to understand how do you feel about it, in particular after the re-opening of the scottish parliamnet. I want to understand if Sir walter was just a dreamer or if in a way the Union has worked and now you feel more united and part of the same nation.
I thank you all for your help in this little survey of mine!
Fede

[ANDY-J2]

Fede_Scott,
By the nineteenth century Scotland had begun to reap the benefits of the union with England.This country had undergone an agricultural revolution and was about to embark on an industrial revolution and also during the enlightenment of the late eighteenth century Scottish culture,architecture and philosophy had enjoyed a golden age.Arguably much of this occured as a direct result of the union with England so to wealthy gentlemen of the period such as Sir Walter Scott the union was viewed in a positive light.I believe there is no doubt that the union served this country well in the past and allowed the Scots to have an influence on world affairs out of all proportion to our size.It made sense for our two countries which had a shared religion and system of values to unite rather than compete with each other and the surplus of manpower which Scotland had as a result of the changes in agriculture and land ownership came at the very time that Britain needed people to populate the expanding empire.Nowadays however there are few compelling arguments for union between our two countries and at present around a third of the population would prefer to see the dissolution of the United Kingdom.

[RedRum]

the english and the scots might have their differences, but no-one dares to mess with us when we work together.

[Hirta]

I sometimes feel quite sad when I hear of nationalists talking of dissolving the union because it is "no longer the formidable econmic union that it once was". There is no loyalty - as if the nationalists are saying that they were merely using us for profit and nothing else. A shame.

[rdt2]

Originally posted by Hirta
I sometimes feel quite sad when I hear of nationalists talking of dissolving the union because it is "no longer the formidable econmic union that it once was". There is no loyalty - as if the nationalists are saying that they were merely using us for profit and nothing else. A shame.

Well, it can be argued that England (I presume that's what you mean by 'us'), the 'Home Counties' in particular, have made use of the 'provinces' (what patronising terms). However, let's not argue that here.

Nationalism is not predicated on the basis of disloyalty - it's more that Westminster is too remote to be 'local' government but too small to be, on its own, a world player. Just like Eire, so Scotland, Wales, NI and England (divided into as many parts as the English desire, could all function as local governments. As part of the EU, they would have worldwide political and industrial clout.

Cheers,

Ron.

[Monco]

Originally posted by Hirta
I sometimes feel quite sad when I hear of nationalists talking of dissolving the union because it is "no longer the formidable econmic union that it once was". There is no loyalty - as if the nationalists are saying that they were merely using us for profit and nothing else. A shame.

I am not actually sure most pro union dissolvers are of the opinion that the UK is "no longer the formidable economic union that it once was", it sounds more like they think England will never be left wing enough for their liking, and think they can pursue policies in Scotland that Westminster wouldn't allow.

The Land Reform Bill is a stupid and illiberal piece of legislation which harms our future prospects by undermining the rights of property. Westminster would never have passed it. The Liberal Democrats - who are not remotely liberal - are keen to introduce a law outlawing smacking of children under 3, another stupid piece of legislation which unnecessarily interferes in parents right to raise their children. Again its not something Westminster would allow. Holyrood is full of interfering mother-in-laws, you can hardly drive past a billboard without seeing seeing some nagging piece of government propaganda.

On the contrary the business community - which is not very highly valued in Scotland - are generally not enthusiastic about separatism, so much so that they even supported the business ignorant Labour party against the SNP in the last election campaign. The SNP have made a fairly decent stab at being pro business, but you never really get the feeling that it is quite their top priority.

But it is the case that self interest was the main catalyst in the creation of the union, English as well as Scots. The English didn't pass the union legislation out of any sense of altruism. It suited them too. And a lot of Scots who prospered via the union themselves moved to England, and to some extent still do. I doubt very much England could be said to have got a bad deal.

[rdt2]

Originally posted by Monco
I am not actually sure most pro union dissolvers are of the opinion that the UK is "no longer the formidable economic union that it once was", it sounds more like they think England will never be left wing enough for their liking, and think they can pursue policies in Scotland that Westminster wouldn't allow.

This from several friends in Liverpool: 'Please don't vote SNP - you'll condemn us to the Tories for evermore' (I'd include New Labour in that).

The Land Reform Bill is a stupid and illiberal piece of legislation which harms our future prospects by undermining the rights of property...

In which way exactly?

On the contrary the business community - which is not very highly valued in Scotland

Absolute $hite! Although I seem to be the only one on this site who posts anything other than adverts to the business forum. Care to contribute there, Monco?

But it is the case that self interest was the main catalyst in the creation of the union, English as well as Scots. The English didn't pass the union legislation out of any sense of altruism. It suited them too. And a lot of Scots who prospered via the union themselves moved to England, and to some extent still do. I doubt very much England could be said to have got a bad deal. [/b]

Well, at least we agree on the history!

Ron.