Hyphenated Identities...

[tanya.bailey]

After reading a thread on this website I still have lingering questions: why does it offend people that Americans call themselves Irish Americans or Scots Americans? Shouldn't you be flattered that people (not just Americans) are proud to have a tie, however obscure to your fascinating, rich culture? Technically none of us are "Americans" usless we were born into a Native American Tribe, so what should we call ourselves? I am proud of my ancestors who immigrated from Europe: we carry the traditions of those people thorugh our food, holidays, music, etc...Its hard to understand if you are not American but we don't have a long history in this country. We search for and/or reach out to our ancestors because Americans don't have culture/language/food/traditions of our own. I mean do pizza and rap really count as culture? Please enlighten me...I am not trying to start a fight or petty name calling; I truly just don't understand why it offends some.

[Polwarth]

I think that if you have read the previous threads on this topic... you would have read the many times that we Scots have answered this question.

To reiterate

Most Scots have no problems with any foreigner acknowledging that they have Scots (or insert other European ancestry here) ancestry. What we find offensive is when foreigners, sometimes many, many generations removed and with probably one (often unproven!) Scots ancestor, call themselves Scots. No hyphenation. Scots.

I only don't understand why you think WE should be 'proud' that foreigners wish to claim Scottishness. We can't claim honour or pride about strangers from earlier generations.

I believe ou call yourselves Americans because USA-ians hardly rolls off the tongue. I know that some Canadian and Mexican friends don't like it, simply because they, too, are Americans - and don't get me started on South America and their 'rights' to the title. I suspect that very few native American would call themselves 'American' - I know a few, and they always refer to themselves by their tribal identitym Lakota, Shoshone, Pawnee etc.

[Celyn]

Originally Posted by tanya.bailey

After reading a thread on this website I still have lingering questions: why does it offend people that Americans call themselves Irish Americans or Scots Americans? ...

I don't know about "offended" as such, but the inaccuracy of such nomenclature is somewhat jarring, if that makes sense. Yes, after a moment's thinking, one does remember that it seems to be a common usage in the U.S., but to me "Scottish American" might make sense for someone who was, for instance brought up in Scotland then emigrated, or grew up partly in Scotland and moved with family as a child, or something like that. When we get people whose great great grandmother might have been Scottish calling themselves "Scots American" or even (occasionally) Scots, well "jarring" is the best I can come up with right now. Trying to explain (partly to you and partly to myself , what I mean here, how about examples such as Craig Ferguson can be Scottish-American, the dreaded Donald Trump, not so much?

I can see that "American of Scottish/Irish/Italian/German/insert-any-nationality ancestry does not exactly slip off the tongue but this "Scots-American usage just doesn't sound right to us. I'm pretty sure other countries' people would be likely to feel the same. Oh, and I have seen U.S. people on message boards referring to themselves as "whatever nationality WITHOUT a hyphen, in the sense of "at home we always eat x because I am x nationality", when it is really a shorthand for "a great grandparent immigrated to the U.S. from x country". It's always a bit confusing at first, and of course, inaccurate. Perhaps we are just a nation of pedants, eh? If you think that we sometimes seem to have a hair trigger about this, well, it is not unheard of to find U.S. people who will presume to know more about Scotland than anyone who actually lives here, NOT yourself, I hasten to add, but I'm sure you can see that such an attitude can be irritating.

Originally Posted by tanya.bailey

Shouldn't you be flattered that people (not just Americans) are proud to have a tie, however obscure to your fascinating, rich culture? ...

Haha, it's more fun to select the evidence when it suits. People I like, yes, I would probably be dead chuffed, other people, well, see earlier example of Mr. Trump.

Originally Posted by tanya.bailey

... Technically none of us are "Americans" usless we were born into a Native American Tribe, so what should we call ourselves?...

Not sure about that, really. You know better than I, of course, but I should have thought that, despite some very unpleasant bits of history, by now, if you are born and brought up there, well, why not "American"? Again, you know better than I about that.

Originally Posted by tanya.bailey

... I am proud of my ancestors who immigrated from Europe: we carry the traditions of those people thorugh our food, holidays, music, etc...Its hard to understand if you are not American but we don't have a long history in this country. We search for and/or reach out to our ancestors because Americans don't have culture/language/food/traditions of our own. I mean do pizza and rap really count as culture? Please enlighten me...I am not trying to start a fight or petty name calling; I truly just don't understand why it offends some.

Nah, how about you have rather a wonderful mélange of cultures. Pizza, eh? Oh well, OK, I don't suppose Italy is going to go to war with you about that. Rap, of course, you can keep. We are infested with some of it here. Would you like to have it all back, plizz? It is lacking in the letter "c" , I think.

I have tried to explain, and I hope I have not only muddied the waters further.

In a bit of a hurry just now, and might come back later.

[ochilsman]

Technically, you are a native American if you are born there. Polwarth is correct, the American Indians do not refer to themselves as "Native American". This is a white invention by people trying to be "politically correct." They always use the name of their tribes.

[kathyv]

Tanya, I've come to the conclusion that hyphenated American terms are the lame-stream media's attempt to sell papers and prove they are acceptably politically correct. They want to sell a product so this PC verbiage is their apparent tool.

I am an American. My ancestors came here from other places just like EVERY OTHER American in the country. My lineage and pigmentation should not matter to anyone and if I was naughty and written up in the papers I would probably be listed as an American woman, or even possibly just a woman leaving out the country of origin. They would not refer to me as a European-American. HOWEVER, if I was black or dark brown they would term me as African American of Latin American or Native American. I can't understand why we would need to know this, why it would actually make a difference to anyone or the story, other than to label a person and sell papers.

Personally, I believe it's one of the things in the States that keeps fanning the flames of racism. Until we can get away from this kind of profiling, and begin to refer to each other as what we all are, we will still have that mind set of 'those other people'.

[tanya.bailey]

Celyn- hehe you are quite right not even Pizza is ours(though we probably claim it), maybe I should have said burgers?(I think we invented that, right?) anyways thanks to all who responded maybe I am beginning to understand a little better!

[Celyn]

Originally Posted by tanya.bailey

... maybe I should have said burgers?(I think we invented that, right?)...

Well, I was just about to remark that the good people of Hamburg might disagree, but it does seem as though the origins of the hamburger are shrouded in mystery. OK, maybe you can have that one. Of course, I could always choose to decide that you stole it from our very own Scottish sliced (Lorne) sausage, just to set the cat among the pigeons.



Note: No cats or pigeons are harmed in the making of said sausage.

Allegedly