Cope Family Name

[Llan]

Hi,
I am new to Scotland.com and would like to see if I can find the birthplace of my 6th Gt. Grandfather William Cope.
Hw was born in Scotland in 1719, and fought in the Jacobite Rising of 1746, against the Church of England. I find that quite ironic because there was, of course, Sir John Cope ("Johnnie Cope") who commanded the Government Troops in that Rising! My grandfather left Scotland shortly after the Rising was put down. The "oral tradition" was that he was "conscripted" into the British Army. He was sent to Germany, and then on to the New World, where he fought in the French and Indian War.
I also know that he married a Phoebe Ellsworth (also born in Scotland) while living in the Colony of New York.
During the American Revolution, he fought for the Command Unit of the Queen's Rangers, along with his older sons. After this war, he once again found himself on the run! His family fled into Canada, and eventually founded Copetown in Wentworth County, Ontario.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone might have run accross the Cope family name there in Scotland (probably in the Highlands, but maybe not). If you have some hints or tips I would also appreciate hearing from you, as I have hit the "brick wall"!

[Mamie]

hmm the only William Cope other than your relation on the IGI is one married in 1871 in Edinburgh - it isn't a common name apparently.

COPE as a surname doesn't even come up much - those there are mostly from Lanark, Midlothian and Perth. One in the approximate time frame is from Angus. Only one is all the Highlands and the spelling for that one is COUP.

[Llan]

Thank you very much for your reply. There are variations on the spelling of the Cope surname, and Coap is one of them that I have run accross in the past. Other variations are: Coop, Copes, and Coape. As an old Saxon surname, it came to the British Isles shortly after the Romans pulled out (aprox. 500 A.D.). During the Norman migrations (apox. 1000 A.D.) The family began to move both north into Scotland and even into Ireland! The result being people in each of these countries today with the Cope surname.
The reason that I am thinking that William is a highlander is because that a story about him here is that he fought in the Jocobite Rising against the Church of England, in 1746.
I would be happy to have whatever you have found! Perhaps I can determine later if this is the William that I am looking for.
Thanks!

[Polwarth]

Cope is, as far as I know, an English name. That is not to say that there were not (or may still be) Scottish families with the same surname.

I think your family story is interesting, but probably not totally accurate. The Jacobite Risings were not against the Church of England, for a start! They were fought by Jacobites against the Hanoverians (Scots as well as English).

Interestingly, one of the English Hanoverian generals, John Cope goes down in history, though. Seemingly he was a little afraid of the Jacobite forces and the Scots wrote a scurrilous song about him... It's a song most Scots of my generation learned at school. Here's the lyrics

JOHNNY COPE
Cope sent a challenge from Dunbar saying Charlie meet me an’ ye daur
An’ I’ll learn ye the art o’ war if ye’ll meet me in the morning

Chorus: Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning

When Charlie looked his letter upon he drew his sword the scabbard from
Come follow me my merry men and we’ll meet Johnny Cope in the morning

Chorus: Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning

Now Johnny be as good as your word come let us try baithe fire and sword
And dinna flee like a frichted bird that’s chased frae its nest i’ the morning

Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning


When Johnny Cope he heard o’ this He thocht it wadna be amiss
Tae hae a horse in readiness Tae flee awa in the morning

Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning

Fye now Johnny get up a’ rin The Highland bagpipes mak’ a din
Its better tae Sleep in a hale skin for it will be a bloody morning

Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning

When Johnny Cope tae Dunbar cam’ the spiered at him Where’s a your men
The de’il confound me gin I ken for I left them a’ in the morning

Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning

Now Johnny troth ye werna blate Tae come wi’ news o’ your ain defeat
And leave you men in sic a strait Sac early in the morning

Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning

In faith qou Johnny I got sic flags Wi’ their claymores an’ philabegs
Gin I face them again de’il brak my legs so I wish you a’ good morning

Hey Johnny Cope are ye walking yet or are your drums a beating yet
If ye were walking I would wait tae gang tae the coals in the morning

Good luck with your research!

[Llan]

Good Evening Polwarth,
I want to thank you for your response. You are most certainly correct in saying that Cope is English. I mentioned to you that I find it rather ironic that my research has led me to this point of looking for my 6th Gt. Grandfather's birthplace in Scotland. I also find out that he was a Jacobite and to quote my source: "William Cope (1719-1813), head of the family after whom Copetown was named, was a Scot who fled to Wurtemberg in Germany after the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 (against the Church of England)." This quote is from Alvin E. Monroe's book entitled "My Grandma Was A Cope". My understanding, after speaking with Mr. Monroe and his son, is that the book is no longer in print. There are many more references to William Cope and his family found in the early history of Ontario, Canada, particularly Norfolk, and Wentworth Counties.
I am not familure as I perhaps should be with just who and what the Jacobite Rising was all about. I only concluded that he fought against the Church of England (and therefore against "Jhonny Cope") because the quote said that he fought against the Church of England. Perhaps you could tell me more about the Hanovarians.
Thanks Again!

[aNonnyMoose]

My personal favourite Jacobite ballad:

THE BONNIE BLUE BONNETS

Blarin' trumpets sounded far
Horseman wore their gear for war
English came up tae Dunbar
Upon the misty morning,
Prince Charlie wi' his Hieland host
Lay westward on the Lothian coast.
Mony's the taunt our Johnny did boast
Whit he'd dae that mornin'.

Chorus
Run, run ye ganglin' crew
This morning's work ye lang shall rue
For the bonnie blue bonnets are after you
Tae wish ye's a' guid mornin...

Lang ere the cock proclaimed the day
The Prince's men stood in array.
Proud, impatient for the fray,
That fell on them that morning.
"Row dow dow" said the English drum,
The Hieland bagpipes made their hum
Call all the mountain clans to come
Death and danger's callin'.

Chorus

Ilk hand was firm, ilk heart was true,
A shot and doon their guns they threw,
Forth the dreaded claymores drew
Upon that fearful morning.
The English raised a loud Huzzah!
But nane daur bide the brunt of a'.
Wavered, turned, then rin awa'
Like sheep at shepherds' horning.

Chorus

Whit sad mishap that few befell
Wha' feinted, groaned the battle yell
Still Gardiner fought and fighting fell
Upon that fatal morning.
Nae braggart but a soldier, he
Wad scorn wi' coward loons tae flee
And fell beneath the auld thorn tree,
Upon that fearsome mornin'.

Chorus

Fast, fast, the foot and horsemen flew
Red caps were mixed wi' bonnie blue
Dirks were wet, but no wi' dew,
Upon that fatal morning.
Nane stayed save ane devoted band
Tae bide the brunt of Hieland man
Ran awa' wi heid in haund
Upon that dreadful mornin'.

To boast our deeds becomes us ill,
Scotland has her border still,
Though some remain who long to kill,
The land of thought and learnin'.
The Roman Legions tried in vain,
The Saxon, aye, and Viking came,
Nane o' them could us contain,
Heed this gentle warnin'.

Run, run ye ganglin' crew
This morning's work ye lang shall rue
For the bonnie blue bonnets are after you
Tae wish ye's a' guid mornin...

Aye, run, run ye ganglin' crew
For the bonnie blue bonnets are after you
All we really want to do
Is wish ye's a' guid mornin'!

[Polwarth]

Originally posted by Llan
[ I also find out that he was a Jacobite and to quote my source: "William Cope (1719-1813), head of the family after whom Copetown was named, was a Scot who fled to Wurtemberg in Germany after the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 (against the Church of England)." This quote is from Alvin E. Monroe's book entitled "My Grandma Was A Cope". My understanding, after speaking with Mr. Monroe and his son, is that the book is no longer in print. There are many more references to William Cope and his family found in the early history of Ontario, Canada, particularly Norfolk, and Wentworth Counties.
I am not familure as I perhaps should be with just who and what the Jacobite Rising was all about. I only concluded that he fought against the Church of England (and therefore against "Jhonny Cope") because the quote said that he fought against the Church of England. Perhaps you could tell me more about the Hanovarians.
Thanks Again! [/b]

I'm sorry, but I've never heard the name Alvin E Monroe as being a Scottish historian, and I have to confess that he sounds like an American or Canadian (Alvin is not a common Scottish name!)- so it's interesting to see you put so much belief in what he wrote. I wonder if he, like many before him, has made assumptions about a Scottish ancestor, rather than have fully documented proof? For instance, for anyone to make such a basic mistake as to say that the '45 was against the Church of England is erroneous. As explained by Nonny in another of your posts - many of the Jacobites were not Catholic, but included Presbyterian and my own ancestors who fought on the Jacobite side were actually Episcopalian.

As for your ancestor being a highlander... well, many lowlanders fought in the uprisings, too. What makes you particularly sure that your ancestor was a highlander? Do you have any proof whatsoever, or is it an assumption based on the fact that Mr Monroe's book said so? Does Mr Monroe have actual, verifiable sources for his assumptions?

You really need to read a book on Scottish history. Perhaps John Prebble's 'Culloden' would help with the background detail of the '45. Although many historians now discount Prebble, I think he writes well and explains why the country found itself at war within.

I wish you good luck with your research