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If you're a Scot, look away now... haggis was invented by the English

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 14th July 2011, 10:03
Sgoinneil Sgoinneil is offline
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If haggis is English, does this matter? thats the point behind the newsworthiness of the articles. Would people feel less attachment to eating it if they knew its origins were English?
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Old 14th July 2011, 10:16
Duthill Duthill is offline
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Haggis is not English any more that it is South African or Kiwi or Canadian.
The newspaper article has no worthiness , no more that the proponents of the viewpoint.

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Old 14th July 2011, 12:39
Sgoinneil Sgoinneil is offline
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It's certainly true to say that the English world really has embraced haggis. Throughout the English countries, it is enjoyed. Perhaps it's an older link than we assume?
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Old 14th July 2011, 17:48
Sgoinneil Sgoinneil is offline
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The first known written recipe for a dish of the name (as 'hagese'), made with offal and herbs, is in the verse cookbook Liber Cure Cocorum dating from around 1430 in Lancashire, North West England.[2]

For hagese'.
Že hert of schepe, že nere žou take,
Žo bowel noght žou shalle forsake,
On že turbilen made, and boyled wele,
Hacke alle togeder with gode persole,

Haggis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The English are recorded as the first to name the dish haggis.
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Old 14th July 2011, 19:07
ANDY-J3 ANDY-J3 is offline
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But as the source states "there is a lack of historical evidence that could conclusively attribute its origins to any one place", "there is no precise date for the first preparation of haggis", "In the absence of hard facts as to haggis' origins". I personally don't regard it as significant where it originated but your assertion that the Haggis was invented by the English isn't supported by the evidence you've provided. The first known written recipe for haggis might be English but who knows where the author got the recipe from - maybe he got it from a Scotsman? The Sloane manuscript which was the original source was just a collection of lullabies and medieval lyrics etc. that happened to include a recipe for a dish called Hagese' but where it originated is not known.
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Old 14th July 2011, 19:21
Sgoinneil Sgoinneil is offline
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Surely evidence is separate from proof? The evidence suggests the named recipe originates in England. It certainly proves nothing I agree. I don't see an English origin as certain, just more likely than a Scottish one as far as the named recipe is concerned anyway.

Last edited by Sgoinneil; 14th July 2011 at 19:40.
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 14th July 2011, 20:51
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Babz Babz is offline
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Originally Posted by Duthill View Post
You could put a dot on the map of Scotland and write Denaby Main by it eh
Yeah done it !!!

Denaby Main is now near Aberdeen

Sgoinneil : I wonder why the notion of haggis being English causes such robust indignation amongst some? Could it be that they don't want to accept any evidence, no matter how convincing? It seems strange that when Robert Burns wrote his ode to a haggis, he was happy to use an English derived dialect, yet we now have to see as stupid any historian that suggests it has English origins too.

I don't want to accept it as I wouldn't want to eat it being a vegetarian

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