Go Back   Scotland Discussion Forum > Culture > Clans


Kidd Clan....

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10th January 2011, 07:34
cathc cathc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Kidd family posterous website

Hi Kidds,
I have just started a website on my Kidd (and Crammond) ancestors with numerous pictures and letters fro Mid 18th to early 20th century.
They came from Brechin Scotland and my ancestors Susan Kidd (m.Alexander Crammond) came to Australia (Sydney)
Kiddclan.posterous.com (under construction)
I would enjoy hearing from you if you find any of this information useful
cath

cathconnor@optusnet.com.au
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10th January 2011, 10:38
wullie m wullie m is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 875
cath, I've a buddy, a Kidd, who lives in Liverpool, he did the family tree thing, I'll send on your site. wullie.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 14th January 2011, 08:36
figheadair's Avatar
figheadair figheadair is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Notwithstanding what Electric Scotland lists, there was never a Clan Kidd/Kydd.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 14th January 2011, 09:48
wullie m wullie m is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 875
I think, if you read some of the nonsense on this site. there was a Clan A'body! wullie.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 14th January 2011, 11:18
Auld Chiel Auld Chiel is offline
Quarantined Users
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 210
Clann is just the Gaelic word for "children"/"offspring"/"descendants" - in other words, an extended family group composed of the descendants of the founding ancestor of the name in question. They argued over the legal definition of what the word "clan" meant back in 1941 when a dispute arose over the chiefship of the Clan MacLean, and this is what the court record states:

Quote:
P.220) (Q.) "In your view, what does the word "clan" mean? (A.) It has a general meaning of family, ordinary meaning of family, but there is a peculiar sense in which it is used for this quasi-feudal organisation in the Highlands, or you might say feudal organisation. (Q.) But its primary meaning, I think, is family? (A.) Yes. (Q.)In your view, did the clans in fact consist either of persons linked by blood or persons linked by reason of place of dwelling in a territory? (A.) That is the defination of the Act of Parliament. (Reference Acts 1587 & Act of 11 Sept, 1593 A.P.S., IV, p. 40) (Q.) Do you see a reference there to the pretence of blood or place of dwelling? (A.)Yes. (Q.)Are those familiar terms? (A.) Quite familiar. Pretence means claim....(Q.) So that in your view do you get this dual element entering into the composition of the clan, blood-relation and place of dwelling? (A.) Oh, yes, you have both.

Evidence of the Very Rev. Lachlan Maclean Watt, LL.D., Bard of the Clan MacLean Association: (P. 517) (Q.) (Referred to Mackenzie's "Works," II, 574, 618: (Q.)Do you deduce that Sir G. Mackenzie considered that from a heraldic point of view the "head of the clan" the "chief of the clan" or the "representer of the family" all meant the same thing? (A.) I respectfully suggest that it is a matter of "Head of a Family" and "Head of a Clan." He was a Highlander and he knew that clan means a family. Clan and family mean exactly the same thing."

Lord Wark, in Maclean of Ardgour v. Maclean 1941 S.C. at p. 657:
Of what may be of further interest to some here it was also decided:

Quote:
Maclean of Ardgour v. Maclean 1941 S.C. 613:

" From an allowance of proof the Court excluded all questions relating to the chieftainship and the relative positions of the parties within the clan, holding that neither chiefship of a whole clan nor chieftainship of a branch of a clan was a legal status justiciable in a court of law, but had the character of a social dignity only, and, accordingly, that the Lord Lyon had no jurisdiction to decide the disputed question of who had right to the chieftainship either directly or incidentally when disposing of the claims for supporters and for a birthbrief. [..] Observations: [...] on the meaning of "chief" and "chieftain" in the law and practice of arms, with opinion by the Lord Justice-Clerk that in the recorded cases in which a Lord Lyon had made a declaration of chiefship the declaration had been merely a ministerial act and not a finding in his judicial capacity upon a disputed question."
Lord Justice-Clerk, in Maclean of Ardgour v. Maclean 1941 S.C. at p. 636:
"There is no instance in the registers of any judicial decision by Lyon in a disputed question of chiefship or chieftainship. The only instance founded on by the petitioner was the finding by Lyon regarding the chiefship of Clan Chattan on 10th September 1672 [...] It will be noticed that this declaration proceeded simply upon a perusal by Lyon of evidents and testimonies from "our histories, my own Registers, and bands of Manrent" and that it was in no sense a finding pronounced in a lis or contested process. It vouches nothing beyond that in this particular case Lyon made a declaration of chiefship. Similarly, the matriculation of the arms of the chief of the M'Naghtons proves nothing [...] This is not a decision in a lis: again it is simply a recording of the dignity of a chiefship acknowledged by attestation. The only other case to which reference need be made is the case of Drummond of Concraig [...] This is the only instance to which we were referred of a chief of a branch being mentioned, and it is only designation. It is not a declarator or a declaratory finding of chieftaincy. In none of the writs which were before us can I find any support for a conclusion that Lyon at any time either claimed, or exercised, a jurisdiction to determine disputes as to which of competing claimants to chiefship or chieftainship was to be preferred."

Lord Wark, in Maclean of Ardgour v. Maclean 1941 S.C. at p. 657:

"I agree with your Lordships that Lyon has no jurisdiction to entertain a substantive declarator of chiefship of a Highland clan, or of chieftainship of a branch of a clan. [...] The question of chiefship of a Highland clan, or chieftainship of a branch of a clan, is not in itself, in my opinion, a matter which involves any interest which the law can recognise. At most, it is a question of social dignity or precedence. In so far as it involves social dignity it is a dignity which, in my opinion, is unknown to the law. It was decided in the case College of Surgeons of Edinburgh v. College of Physicians of Edinburgh (1911 S.C. 1054), that Lyon has no jurisdiction except as is conferred by statute, or is vouched by the authority of an Institutional writer, or by continuous and accepted practice of the Lyon Court. [...] in my opinion, there is no practice or precedent which entitled Lyon to decide a question of disputed chiefship or chieftainship, either by itself or incidentally to a grant of arms. There is direct authority, by way of precedent, for Lyon considering an acknowledged chiefship of a clan as incidental to a grant of arms with supporters. The case of Macnaghton (13th January 1818, Lyon Register, vol. ii, p. 172) is a case of that kind. But it is a different thing altogether to say that in a case of dispute Lyon has jurisdiction to determine and declare who is chief. For that no precedent has been cited to us. In my opinion, it is outwith his jurisdiction to decide because (1) at best it is a question merely of social status or precedence; (2) this social status is not one recognised by law; and (3) and, most important of all, it depends, not upon any principle of law of succession which can be applied by a Court of Law, but upon recognition by the clan itself. Like your Lordship, I am at a loss to understand how any determination or decree of Lyon ever could impose upon a clan a head which it did not desire to acknowledge."
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 14th January 2011, 13:43
tig's Avatar
tig tig is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by wullie m View Post
I think, if you read some of the nonsense on this site. there was a Clan A'body! wullie.

so true

just ask the auld yin about it

im personally from clan macpish....(pronounced makfiph)

i still need to hunt for my tree tho
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 19:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC4 © 2006, Crawlability, Inc.