Dunn Clan

[Crofter]

I’d like to know a bit more about this modern thinking. Is it the same as what we refer to in the Highlands as ignorance? Does it dispute the original homeland of the first Scots (Scotti)? Does it dispute the existence of the Kingdom of Dalriada? Does it dispute the life of Columba and the significance of Iona?

As you say, it was easier to get around by sea than by land in those days. The land mass of N.E. Ireland was less than fifteen miles from Kintyre. From Glasgow to Greenock, down the Clyde, is about two and a half times that distance, by land it could take days.

On your recent visit to Edinburgh, Wullie, you mentioned someone with his head on the bar who wouldn’t engage in conversation with you. Perhaps he was one of those modern thinkers? The conceit of the inhabitants of that fair city and its environs is staggering.

Auld Chiel, you are opening up discussions that have been argued to death over past threads. Much of what you have to say would suggest that you do have a grasp of Scottish history. Unfortunately you also come across as having a certain degree of sympathy with Highland affairs and culture, and are ready to stand up for yourself, anathema to some of our fellow members.

Anyway you keep it up. Could I suggest, however, that instead of being spread over several threads you consolidate your arguments and concentrate on one thread? I only suggest this because it would be so much easier for those of us whose thinking is not so modern.

[Auld Chiel]

Originally Posted by Crofter

Auld Chiel, you are opening up discussions that have been argued to death over past threads. Much of what you have to say would suggest that you do have a grasp of Scottish history. Unfortunately you also come across as having a certain degree of sympathy with Highland affairs and culture, and are ready to stand up for yourself, anathema to some of our fellow members.

Anyway you keep it up. Could I suggest, however, that instead of being spread over several threads you consolidate your arguments and concentrate on one thread? I only suggest this because it would be so much easier for those of us whose thinking is not so modern.

Well, it wasn't my intention to beat a dead horse, so I hope that I'm not doing that here. I don't mind an invigorating exchange of ideas however, so if anyone is game, I'll play along. What I don't like to see is someone coming onto a forum like this in the hope of being given sound advice and solid answers and end up walking away in exhasperation because the forum's resident population only wish to while away their idle hours engaging in mundane conversation amongst themselves and making sport out of those wayward souls who drop in to satisfy their curiousity regarding some vague point pertaining to their ancestry or traditions, and so forth. History and the customs and traditions of my forefathers is something that has always been of interest to me, and I will be more than happy to share what I know with those who might find it of benefit, or correct those who are spreading misinformation, even if it is "modern thinking." Those who lived in the past knew more about their own past than more recent generations can hope to discover with all their archaeological dust-brushes and microscopes. Though in many cases science ends up proving the statements made by ancient observers whose writings and thoughts were long discredited by the so-called "experts".

[AnBríceadóir]

Dunn isn't a clan, it's an Irish surname, I'm a Dunn from Glasgow and my great grandfather came from Meath to Glasgow in 1925 after being offered residence in the UK for his part in WW1.

[dunnybun]

The following is a short history of the Erskine Clan taken from:

THE HIGHLANDER


The Magazine of Scottish Heritage
Vol. 29, No. 2
Mar/Apr 1991
By Archie Mckerracher

These are Your People
The Erskines..Links to the Dun:


The Erskines were originally a Lowland family who inherited through marriage the Earldom of Mar, the most ancient of Celtic earldoms, and thus became allied to the principal Highland families. Their name comes from the fertile lands of Erskine in Ren-frewshire, on the south banks of the River Clyde, and derives from the Brythonnic Celtic (Welsh) 'y ysigyn', the green slope, which perfectly describes the topography. Although the barony of Erskine does not appear among the lands granted by Malcolm IV, to Walter, High Steward of Scotland, it is likely the Erskines were of native stock and became vassals of the Stewarts. The first on record is Henry de Ereskyn whose signature appears as witness to a charter of Paisley Abbey in 1226 A.D., in the reign of Alexander II. His castle stood where the new Erskine bridge scans the Clyde.

Sir Robert de Erskine of that Ilk, the worthy, wyse and lele', was High Chamberlain of Scotland in the late14th century. He supported the cause of David II against the resurgent Balliol faction, and later, in 1357, helped secure the king's release from captivity in England. He was rewarded with the important office of Constable of Stirling Castle and in 1368 was granted the lands of Alloa in Clackmannanshire where he built a fortified house. All of these are still held by his descendants today. He was also Ambassador to France, England and the Papal See. He supported the claim of the High Stewards to the Scottish monarchy and assisted Robert II ascend the throne in 1371. As an old ballad says, "Robert Stewart was made King, Specially throw the helping, Of gude Schir Robert Erskine"
Sir Robert purchased the lands of Dun near Montrose in north-east Scotland in 1358. These were later granted to his younger grandson, John, who founded the line of Erskines of Dun. These were the most prominent of the various cadet families until the last in the male line died in 1812. Their House of Dun is now a hotel and their town house in Montrose now a local newspaper office. The local church-yards hereabouts are full of Erskine stones. The other principal cadet line was the Erskines of Pittodrie in Aberdeenshire.

His son, Sir Thomas Erskine, married Janet in 1352, great-granddaughter of Gratney, 7th Earl of Mar, and the Lady Christian, sister of King Robert the Bruce. The Earldom of Mar was the most ancient of the nine great provinces of Scotland and its origins are lost in the mists of antiquity. It was originally part of the northern Pictish kingdom and descended through a Pictish heiress to Donald MacEmin, Mormaer of Mar (Great Steward), who fell at the battle of Clontarf near Dublin in 1014 repelling the Viking domination of Ireland. The incoming Norman influence in Scotland brought changes to titles as the Viking 'Jarl' became anglified to 'Earl', and in 1114 the Mormaer of Mar signed a charter as 'Earl Ruadhri', and he is reckoned as the 1st Earl of Mar. The direct male line of Celtic Earls died out in 1374 with the death of Thomas of Mar, Great Chamberlain of Scotland. He was succeeded by his sister, then by her daughter Isabella, Countess of Mar, who married Alexander Stewart, a natural son of the fearsome Wolf of Badenoch but they had no heir.

Alexander, 3rd Lord Erskine, and de jure (rightful) 15th Earl of Mar, was given the guardianship of the young James IV, and this was the start of the Erskines' hereditary guardianship of five generations of royal heirs. Alexander built a massive tower house in Alloa in 1497 with eleven-foot thick walls, and this was the home of the Erskines for the next three centuries Alexander's son Robert, 4th Lord Erskine and 16th Earl of Mar, was killed at Flodden in 1513 along with his king. Fighting beside him was his relative, Erskine of Dun and his two sons, who were all also killed.

John, 5th Lord Erskine was given the guardianship of the young James V from 1513-28, and later James Stewart, illegitimate son of James V and finally in 1543 the nine-month old Marv, Queen of Scots, was given into his care. She was to spend the first five years of her life at Alloa Tower and Stirling Castle. His son James, 6th Lord Erskine, was created Earl of Mar by Mary Queen of Scots in 1565, who was moved by conscience' to correct the errors of her predecessors. But what she should have done was simply confirm him in the older title for, by her action, she effectively created two Earldoms, the ancient one and the new creation. This was to cause major headaches for later peerage lawyers, and led to the eventual splitting of the title.


There is a Dunn Tartan and I was told that as a DUNN I could were with pride the Erskine Tartan. I have found one company in Scotland that has the Dunn coloured tartan if anyone is interested. Please see:http://www.scotweb.co.uk/tartan/Dunn/55775

[maxkirk]

Originally Posted by dunnybun

I have found one company in Scotland that has the Dunn coloured tartan if anyone is interested. Please see:http://www.scotweb.co.uk/tartan/Dunn/55775

A dunn coloured tartan may not necessarily be the same as the Dunn Tartan