Question of genealogy, clans, Moody

[Krusha]

Hi all!

Small introduction: I'm a 28 year old male from northern Norway, that after having read through the genealogy work my mom had done on our family and our ancestors, got bitten quite hard by the genealogy bug!

So last year I thought I should compile a virtual database with all the information my mom had. This I did, and after a while I discovered that with the help of internet, I had managed to go further back in time than what my mom had managed to do. This is what brings me to this forum, as my research made it clear that one of our ancestors came from Scotland, to Norway. As the problem often can be with this kind of research, is that one comes across many varieties of the same surname.

I had come to a full stop, not being able to "get into Scotland" so to speak, as the name didn't make any sense to other databases. Later though, with a mere random click on a link from Google, I came to discover that there were many ways of writing this surname. I changed my search-query, and voila! I found a heap of information, and suddenly I could go further back.

The surname in our family that I found at first, was a certain "Moddi". Initially I thought this must be a Sami name (Sami people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) but this didn't make any sense to me. What I had discovered at the site I visited, was that this name belonged to a Scottish family/group of people. And since it was a Scottish name, I thought there ought to be other ways of writing it. And this is when i discovered "Moddi" was the Moody/Moodie/Mudie/(etc.) name.

I am very much a beginner when it comes to genealogy, so I do not know about "rules" in terms of ancestral lineages and so forth-- however, when going further back, and making this connection to the Scottish Moody's - I definately have established that there is a connection with each link here, going down all the way from me, to Scotland.

This man (living in Norway) was said to be Scottish. I managed to find his father, and his grandfather [these two all hailing from Scotland]. So far, this is the information I have about the Moody's here. Also from what I understand, the Moody/Moodie family's main ancestor is a certain Harald Maddadson.

There are some holes in my research when it comes to tying "my" Moody down all the way to H.Maddadson, but my main question, which made me sign up here, is related to the issue of clans.

Basically, I am utterly clueless when it comes to the rules of clans, and that of "belonging" to them so to speak.

If I now have found out that I have Scottish ancestors (atleast one of these Moody's came from Orkney), and that they had the Moody name, from which I understand is a sept of the Stewart clan, am I eligible in having the Stewart tartan?

Reading from Coats of Arms (Family Crests) & Surname Histories I see this: "Is your family of Scottish descent? If so, you can proudly display the Stewart Clan Badge. This clan badge is used by all septs of that clan."

If there are rules which say I cannot, then that's fine, as I don't want to pretend something that isn't true. But I have to say it's quite exciting finding out about ones "past", about ones ancestors, and learning about their way of living and so on and so forth. Now, I have no plans about starting to wear a kilt all of a sudden, proclaim myself to be a Scotsman (I'm Norwegian!), and so on - but if there is a connection, and this connection is valid, then having the tartan of the clan in my apartment would to me be a symbol of the link of past ancestors to our family today.

Hopefully some of you here can help me out and clarify these things for me!

Thanks!

[Polwarth]

Hello
I'm a Stewart of Appin, and I have never heard Moody (in any spelling!) to be a sept to the clan. Here's a full list of Stewart Septs from the Electric Scotland is a major educational resource on the history of Scotland, the Scots and people of Scottish descent site

Clan: Stewart

I've always thought that Moody was either an English or Irish name - but have no specific knowledge of that fact!

As to the question about wearing a specific tartan... my view is: if you like it, wear it - the Tartan Police won't come looking for you! BUT... there are many, many Stewart tartans to choose from, so that might present you with a problem.

Good luck with your further research.

[Krusha]

Hi Polwarth,

Thanks for replying!

I initially did not know anything about clans or septs when it came to the Moody's (whatever else spelling they used), but out of mere curiosity I thought "Were they a clan?" and started searching online. With most variants used of the name, I'd always come to some site related with the Stewart clan.

Here's a post - from this forum in fact - that has the Moodie/Moody name associated as a sept of the Stewart clan: Ballantine - Stewart or Campbell?

As I said in my first post, I have very little knowledge so far about this and I'm only going by what I've found online.

I came across some stores selling tartans and kilts, and there too did I see the Moodie name. And I found it again here: Associate.com's Stewart Clan page! - Under category "Septs" - at the first line, starting with "Boyd". But then under "Clan Stuart" on Wiki I did not find it.

Now I took a closer look at the page you linked, and I did not find "Moodie" under the main section of septs belonging to Clan Stewart, but then I went to this section: Alphabetical list of Scottish names associated with clans and families

Found "Moodie", associated with "Stewart". Does this mean then that the Moodie's were not a sept, but were 'associated' with the Stewarts? Or?

Given how random this seems (and I'd dare say somewhat confusing too!), where in some pages one finds results, and in others no results are shown, how reliable is this?

So, as for tartans, if it is so that the Moodie family were associated with the Stewart clan, and that this means a descendant of Moodies can wear a tartan (I don't want to aquire this if there's no connection at all) - the question arises like you said: What tartan to get? Would a sept wear a specific one, or was it just pick and choose as one saw fit?



Regarding the Moodie's, this may be of interest, from an offline document I saved some time ago (can't find it online again), it pertains to the Moodie family, and their origin, life in Scotland and so on:


"The family of Moodie or Mudie, as the name is variously spelt, is one of great antiquity in Scotland, and, according to tradition, is derived from Harald Mac Mudah, one of the last of the old Norse Jarls (Earls) of Orkney, and is so descended in the direct male line from the Royal House of Scotland, and in the female line from the Kings of Norway.

Whether this descent is correct or not cannot now be proved, and must remain a matter of tradition; but a search af the Scottish Records proves that the old idea that Orkney was the home of the family from Norse days, and that the various Forfarshire and Fifeshire families of the name were founded by cadets who came south during the sixteenth century, is quite erroneous, and points to Forfarshire as the Moodie country.
* (The Mudie wills under Glasgow number 31, the earliest dating from 1613 only, although the Records go back to 1547.

The much earlier wills of Mudies to be found in Fifeshire, Forfarshire, and even Edinburgh, show conclusively that the family was a distinctly eastern one in origin. Many Glasgow Mudies will be found in the Edinburgh Records, but none earlier than the above-mentioned date 1613. I have also been over the catalogues of the Commissariots of Dumblane, Dunkeld, and Hamilton and Campsie, but they contained nothing worthy of note, and hardly any Mudie entries at all.

The Caithness Commissariot Records begin too late for any Mudie, and the name does not I think, appear. The same is true of the Commissariots of Inverness and Argyle and the Isles, as also of Aberdeen; but in the latter case the Records go back only to the early part of the eighteenth century (the earlier ones were burnt), otherswise probably some Mudies might have been found in Kincardineshire, most of which came within the Aberdeen district).

It is in Forfarshire that the first mention of the name is found, and the registers of the various Forfarshire parishes from the commencement contain scores of entries relating to the name. From Forfarshire they gradually spread over the borders into Fifeshire, and to a less extent into Perthshire; and, as will be seen, a branch, after a probably short residence in Ayrshire, passed
north into Caithness, eventually settling in Orkney.

But this, though at first sight it might appear to do so, does not in any way tell against the traditional descent. Harald Madadson, indeed, went north at a comparatively early age to claim a share of the Orkney Jarldom in right of his mother, and became practically a Norseman, and his male descendants are known to have died out in Orkney in the persons of his sons. But tradition probably only fixed on Harald Madadson by name because he was the one of his family who was Earl of Orkney, and because it was known that Orkney was the residence of the chief of the name. Harald was the son of Mudah or Maddah and the grandson of Melmare (brother of Kenneth II., King of Scotland).

They were Maormors or Thanes (Earls) of Athole, and the name Madach or Madath, of which indeed Madad is merely a Norse version, seems to have become a sort of perennial and almost hereditary Christian name, and thus to have acquired almost the equivalence of a surname. The change of Madach into Mudach, and the softening of Mudach into Mudah or Muday, were trifling matters in the days when spelling was unfixed.

Taking this into consideration, together with the position of Pitmudy, on the borders of (and probably in old times within) Athole, and also the phenomenal distribution of Mudies in Forfarshire, the family tradition may be correct, and the Moodies be descendants of the old Celtic family to which, on the male side, Harald Madadson belonged."

(Posted by a Ken Markham, to RootsWeb, Jun.30,1999)



And thanks again, I think that this research of mine - the genealogy research as a whole - and this specific one related to Scotland - will take quite some time, as it proves to be quite a massive task. Though I have to say it's a very fun one, there is a lot of history to learn as one studies these things, and it's very enjoyable to be able to do this. Perhaps one day I'll take a trip to Orkney

[Polwarth]

Well, I've certainly never heard of the name being associated with 'my' Stewarts - but that doesn't mean that Moody wasn't associated with one of the other Stewart clans. You should also be aware that some Stewarts from the lowland and central belt area were never members of a clan. Not every Scot or Scots name was part of the clan system!

As I've said - if you like a tartan - wear it! I don't think anyone would invade Norway just to find out whether you've chosen the 'right' tartan or not!

Frankly, I'd take anything written about 'Scotland and its tartans' that appears on a shop site with a great big pinch of salt. I've seen tartans being sold to tourists whose names are clearly Germanic in origin - and even Irish... and no, I'm not talking about a name like Kennedy or MacNeil which are common to both countries! Those shops are, after all, in the business of selling - not giving historically accurate facts.