Scottishness and identity

[Croi Sasanach]

Originally Posted by jafapete

Croi says, "Your ancestors could have been speaking English for the last 1000 years or more."

Thanks, Croiboy. Not sure when they switched to Gaelic, but they were still speaking Gaelic into the twentieth century (on the west side of Arran). I'm a bit dubious about the Strathclyde Briton thing, since there's not exactly a lot of documentation. Where did you learn all this stuff?

No, thank you! Jaffacake.

But i see in your words, the very thought of having ancestors speaking English for such a prolonged period as this is very uncomfortable for you, you need to let go of your anger.

Anyway, as you will know any title with 'Briton' or any of it's related suffixes can be dodgy, however the term is a very age-old word.

Modern Strathclyde is only loosely based on the old kingdom of Strathclyde which went as far south as Morecambe (england) and spoke mostly the old 'British' language, in the more northern and westerly parts their language was mostly replaced with gaelic, and in the more southern and easterly parts it was replaced mostly by English. The kingdom was finally ended by the invading gaels around 1100AD.

To my knowledge Arran was never part of the ancient kingdom of Strathclyde, Arran (i think) was part of Dal Riada for very early on, but for sure the native British speakers were conquered by the gaels and no doubt some were put to the sword.

[LongHairedBeardedKiltie]

Originally Posted by jafapete

LongHairedBeardedKiltie says "Now having your great (x10) Grannie sailing from Greenock or Galway makes you about as authentically Scottish or Irish as me going into McDonalds and declaring myself a chesseburger."

We'll ignore the hyperbole (there weren't too many women emigrating from Greenock 13 generations ago).

How did these Scots breed if it was only males?

Originally Posted by jafapete

Hope you'll recognise and priviledge that much, LongHairedBeardedKiltie

Firstly, I forgot this thead was here,

I recognise the Scots heritage, I have never denied that, the point of my mini rant was not aimed at those who have followed their linage back and see that somewhere back beyond their father they came from Scotland. Thats great, but it's the folks who make no effort to research it (or because they went to a Scottish Festival once they feel Scottish) and claim that they are Scottish and couldn't find the place on an atlas if you gave them 50 tries! They then claim the are Scottish! Thats the one that winds me up.

Peter, I personally have no beef with you mate as you appear to be the former. I can only apologise that you though I was aiming that at you.

I am consistantly amazed at the amount of Scottish-ness in North America (Not just, where you would expect it in Canada and Nova Scotia but in the USA also) and the folks that have researched it, are in the process of researching it or don't know where to start, I would love to help them.

[Luc]

Check me out I'm so totally Scottish. I live in America and my great grand parents whom I have never met were from Scotland. BOW to me!..... Sorry haha no I'm not like that at all. Yes, I am American and Yes my great grand parents whom I never met were from Scotland, but I never try to say I am Scottish.

From an American stand point, I know a bunch of people who think their Irish and back it up with a bunch of made up nonsense. I do envy you Scots though, it has to be nicer over there then it is where I live, but I'm still a proud American.

I have to admit though, I did some research on my lineage and found Scot history dreadfully interesting. (Civil war is the only cool thing in our history in my opinion) And I would love to move to Scotland after college. I will never claim to be Scottish until I am a legal citizen over there, and even then I won't push it ^.-

I'm sorry for the "incompetence of America" (I've ask plenty of international friends how to stereo type us and thats a pretty common word used :/) But I think Americans now a days take this country for granted and forget all sense of patriotism just because some thing caught their fancy.

Well thats my 2 cents take it or leave it. Just found this thread interesting.

~Lucas

[Polwarth]

You would not be entitled to a working visa based on ancestry - it's too far back! But, try to make sure you study for a degree that has relevance to Scotland's (indeed the UK's) needs, eg medicine or teaching or similar and then you might be allowed a work visa. Make sure the degree is to the required standard, too!

[Luc]

Haha yea I wasn't expecting great Gram Riley to get me here, Luckily I was thinking of medical... does veterinary count or is it specifically human medicine :/

[Polwarth]

As far as I am aware..... it's human medicine.

[LongHairedBeardedKiltie]

Originally Posted by Luc

Check me out I'm so totally Scottish. I live in America and my great grand parents whom I have never met were from Scotland. BOW to me!..... Sorry haha no I'm not like that at all. Yes, I am American and Yes my great grand parents whom I never met were from Scotland, but I never try to say I am Scottish.

From an American stand point, I know a bunch of people who think their Irish and back it up with a bunch of made up nonsense. I do envy you Scots though, it has to be nicer over there then it is where I live, but I'm still a proud American.

I have to admit though, I did some research on my lineage and found Scot history dreadfully interesting. (Civil war is the only cool thing in our history in my opinion) And I would love to move to Scotland after college. I will never claim to be Scottish until I am a legal citizen over there, and even then I won't push it ^.-

I'm sorry for the "incompetence of America" (I've ask plenty of international friends how to stereo type us and thats a pretty common word used :/) But I think Americans now a days take this country for granted and forget all sense of patriotism just because some thing caught their fancy.

Well thats my 2 cents take it or leave it. Just found this thread interesting.

~Lucas

Hi Luc
I went the other way and I now live in the states, it's something that winds me up more from folks on the street rather than the folks who are regulars at Scottish and Irish fairs as there is usually enough of us to put the kilt chasers and the romantic dreamers straight.

I do agree that Scotland is a wonderful country and when the sun is out there is no finer sight than some of the scenery in the highlands, the buildings in Glasgow and the history in Edinburgh.

America is getting better at this though, since 9/11 there has been a lot of American patriotism and a lot of folks are finding true worth in that. Perhaps it will progress as a country by looking forward to it's future rather than looking at the past. They are still a young country. The part I am in was founded in 1888.

There are programs where you can do a year of college in Scotland and a Scottish kid does a year at your college. I know that UC Davis does that with Strathclyde or Glasgow as a lassie from our church was here for a year. As for working here, VISA regulations change all the time. Generally speaking though, as Polwarth said, unless it's deemed as a vital skill, such as Doctor or teacher there are no absolutes.