Scottishness and identity

[jafapete]

LongHairedBeardedKiltie says "Now having your great (x10) Grannie sailing from Greenock or Galway makes you about as authentically Scottish or Irish as me going into McDonalds and declaring myself a chesseburger."

We'll ignore the hyperbole (there weren't too many women emigrating from Greenock 13 generations ago).

I'm a NZer who counts his Scottish roots as 5/16ths of his heritage, various Scottish ancestors having arrived in NZ at various times in the 19thC. This would be typical of Scottish descendants in the New World.

I discovered in 1996 when on a VIP tour of Scotland that I'm an "ethnic tourist" when I'm in Scotland - told me by no less than the head of the Scottish Tourist Board!

I feel a lot more comfortable with the Scots on the whole than the Poms, who are too often rather off-putting. But the gulf between being Scottish and being an ethnic tourist was brought home to me on that same trip when staying with some 4th cousins and watching one cheer on the Germans in the European Championship semi-final. Germany?!

So, I'm not Scottish, and there are some things I'll never really understand about the Scots, but part of me comes from Scotland, and for part of me that is where my roots are. What the Maori call Turangawaewae: a "stamping ground" that defines one's identity

Hope you'll recognise and priviledge that much, LongHairedBeardedKiltie

Yours aye, Peter

[Kern]

Originally Posted by LongHairedBeardedKiltie

There is a certain amount of ignorance. It certainly doesn't help when folks assume 60% and don't research the other 40%

Israel, thats a whole different story. Since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, there have been a positive migration back to thier roots. In fact it is even encouraged by the powers that be in Israel. My wife is decended from Romanian Jew and she is the last generation that could in all good faith claim some sort of link to being Jewish.

Now having your great (x10) Grannie sailing from Greenock or Galway makes you about as authentically Scottish or Irish as me going into McDonalds and declaring myself a chesseburger.

Interesting debate - not made easier by the constant push to consider yourself Celtic. People now get confused around the world over who and where you come from because of this.

[richardcorse]

Actually it doesn't really matter the life line bit about one's ancestry, the mere fact that some of us WANT TO BE KNOWN AS SCOTS, is good enough for me

[Ira Taylor]

WOW, this thread just won't die lol

My disclaimer: I am Canadian. I was born in Canada. My parents were born in Canada. My grandparents were born in Canada. Heck, even my great grandparents were born in Canada. But, my great great grandparents were born in North Uist and "decided" to move to Canada in 1838 with a bunch of other 'wild Gaelic speaking savages" (thank you Liam Clancy lol). So, in short, I won't call myself a Scot, nor will I claim to be Scottish. I am a Canadian born Canadian citizen with Scottish ancestry (thank you Polwarth lol).

Now...

...what I don't understand, is why you all get so upset at other people calling themselves Scots. Do you need to get so bent out of shape when you hear someone claiming to be Scottish? Are you somehow afraid that you'll become less Scottish if this happens? Are there hidden benefits to being a real Scot? Do real Scots get any special privileges at airports? Do you get a discount at the market because you are a Scot? Do people like you MORE because you were actually born in Scotland?

Get over it already. You should be honored that someone would want to classify themselves as being like you. Consider it a compliment and move on.

As I've stated many times already, Canada welcomed the Scots (as did many other countries) when they were 'forced to leave by their own clan chiefs' (as described by a Scot earlier in this thread).

Perhaps you don't know, or don't care, that MY people in MY country welcomed YOUR Scots and YOUR families with open arms and appreciate all that YOUR people have done to make Canada such a great country. And now, after more than 200 years of keeping YOUR tongue, YOUR way of life, YOUR bagpipes (God bless 'em) and YOUR legacy alive, you refuse ME the privilege to call myself SCOTTISH???

On MY island, descendants of YOUR Scots have called themselves Scottish for these 200+ years and are going to continue to do so for the next 200 years! However, on THIS board, I will refer to myself as "of Scottish ancestry" and nothing more.

Once more, thanks for letting me have my rant.

Moran taing!

[borderschat]

Originally Posted by Ira Taylor

WOW, this thread just won't die lol

My disclaimer: I am Canadian. I was born in Canada. My parents were born in Canada. My grandparents were born in Canada. Heck, even my great grandparents were born in Canada. But, my great great grandparents were born in North Uist and "decided" to move to Canada in 1838 with a bunch of other 'wild Gaelic speaking savages" (thank you Liam Clancy lol). So, in short, I won't call myself a Scot, nor will I claim to be Scottish. I am a Canadian born Canadian citizen with Scottish ancestry (thank you Polwarth lol).

Now...

...what I don't understand, is why you all get so upset at other people calling themselves Scots. Do you need to get so bent out of shape when you hear someone claiming to be Scottish? Are you somehow afraid that you'll become less Scottish if this happens? Are there hidden benefits to being a real Scot? Do real Scots get any special privileges at airports? Do you get a discount at the market because you are a Scot? Do people like you MORE because you were actually born in Scotland?

Get over it already. You should be honored that someone would want to classify themselves as being like you. Consider it a compliment and move on.

As I've stated many times already, Canada welcomed the Scots (as did many other countries) when they were 'forced to leave by their own clan chiefs' (as described by a Scot earlier in this thread).

Perhaps you don't know, or don't care, that MY people in MY country welcomed YOUR Scots and YOUR families with open arms and appreciate all that YOUR people have done to make Canada such a great country. And now, after more than 200 years of keeping YOUR tongue, YOUR way of life, YOUR bagpipes (God bless 'em) and YOUR legacy alive, you refuse ME the privilege to call myself SCOTTISH???

On MY island, descendants of YOUR Scots have called themselves Scottish for these 200+ years and are going to continue to do so for the next 200 years! However, on THIS board, I will refer to myself as "of Scottish ancestry" and nothing more.

Once more, thanks for letting me have my rant.

Moran taing!

Good post that.
I couldnt agre more,move on, get over it

Be Scottish & proud,Not Scottish & moan

[mgraeme]

Everyone,

I'm an American of Scottish decent who's male line emigrated from Ballachulish in 1843. My mother's decent was Swedish, German, and Irish. Currently, I feel more Canadian currently than anything else because my family played an important part of the early days of Surrey, Cloverdale, and New Westminster in British Columbia. I have felt more of Scottish decent that my mother's Swedish, German, and Irish side of the family. Maybe that has as much to do with the stronger desire to maintain that link through that side of the family than anything else. As a small child, I remember being stuffed into a little formal highland outfit complete with shirt, tie, miniature kilt and sporran for the arrival of my father's parents who were at that time still living in the San Jose area of California. I was also linked up with a Scottish pen pal by my parents who was the young son of a farmer.

I can only say that I want to go back someday and hunt through the cemeteries and church records around Ballachulish and Glencoe, interact with local residents, and maybe leave a bit of my father, perhaps like one of his old corncob pipes in the soil of that area. He always wanted to return to Scotland but was unable to due to difficult economic circumstances.

Does that make me Scottish in terms of national identity? My wife calls me, "My fine Scottish specimen." I don't think so. There has been too much historic water, time, and geographic distance under the bridge, so to speak. However, in terms of origins and genetics, I will always be Scottish in that way. I would never think to tell modern day Scots what to think or feel about their own modern country and the opportunities and trials they face. It is a vastly different world than mine. However, it brings tears to my eyes when I read of and watch video footage of the restoration of her Parliament in 1997.

Cheers,

Martin G. MacKenzie

[Hugh2]

Originally Posted by mgraeme

I'm an American of Scottish decent who's male line emigrated from Ballachulish in 1843.
I can only say that I want to go back someday and hunt through the cemeteries and church records around Ballachulish and Glencoe, interact with local residents, and maybe leave a bit of my father, perhaps like one of his old corncob pipes in the soil of that area. He always wanted to return to Scotland but was unable to due to difficult economic circumstances.
Martin G. MacKenzie

This is the clan forum.

Note how often ignorance rules in this English colony called Scotland!

Ballachulish proper (the township of the narrows) and West Laroch are situated in clan Stewart of Appin country. East Laroch and Carnoch, Glencoe lie in clan Donald country. Did you know that, during the last decades of the clan system, some clansmen in the west Highlands were employed in a manufacturing industry?

If in doubt, purchase a new book entitled Custom and Conflict in "The Land of the Gael": Ballachulish 1900-1910 (Merlin Press, 2007) by Prof. Neville Kirk of Manchester University.

Merlin Press Ltd. CUSTOM AND CONFLICT IN 'THE LAND OF THE GAEL'

Yet again, another Englishman has revealed the truth about a hidden event in Highland history.