Scottishness and identity

[Celyn]

Well, it's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten.

[Babz]

Originally Posted by oor wullie

I've been enjoying this thread. It says two things to me:

1. Scots can have an argument in an empty room.
Thats good fun

2. That the old saying that there are only two types of people in this world is true:
Those who are Scottish and those who want to be Scottish.



I'm also in Canada. I am proud to be Scottish. Anyone wanna argue?

Born where though???

I can argue

If you were not born in Scotland you are not Scottish, no matter where your parents where born!!!

You do however have Scots ancestry !!

I feel as if we are on this merry go round that just won't stop

[oor wullie]

My parents made me Scottish. I did happen to be born, brought up, educated and live for over 30 years in Scotland. I'm sure that I qualify. However, one of my children was born here in North America of two (genuine, by your definition) Scottish parents. He also lived for a time in Scotland, where he got a passport, NI number, etc. Oh, and he also picked up the accent, which he retains. Is he any less Scottish than me? Or his sister?

Some of the stuff on this thread has pertained to people displaced from Scotland by the clearances (perpetrated chiefly by the English). These people were moved from Scotland against their own will. Should we now deny "Scottishness" - not citizenship, but "Scottishness", whatever that is, to their descendants?

brw I myself am an economic refugee from the ravages of Thatcherism in Scotland.

[ScotSites]

Originally Posted by oor wullie

Some of the stuff on this thread has pertained to people displaced from Scotland by the clearances (perpetrated chiefly by the English)...

Oor Wullie, with regard to the bit I have highlighted in your comment, don't you mean perpetrated chiefly by their own clan chiefs? After all it wasn't actually the English that cleared the Highlands!

Babz, you're right, this topic is just like a merry-go-round that just won't stop... but to throw in my tuppence worth, and its a comment that's been made before, if people from America, Canada, Australia, etc want to claim Scottish descent then who's stopping them? However, when these people claim to actually BE Scottish or come out with crass comments about being MORE Scottish than people in Scotland why shouldn't those of us that actually ARE Scottish object?

[LongHairedBeardedKiltie]

I will throw my 2 p in (It probably won’t help but I will give it a go anyway)

I have come full circle on this argument, I used to think that regardless of where the person was born, it was the way that they were brought up that defined them (for example if a person was born in the USA and had Scottish parents then they would be entitled to be called Scottish) I was challenged on this a few years ago on a another Scottish forum and had to do some thinking and perhaps some re-thinking on this.

Now my situation is similar to the one above. I, myself am Scottish, born in bred (some say in-bred) in Scotland. The West of Scotland has been my habitat for most of my life. I regard myself as Scottish (as well as British, at least that’s what my Passport says) That itself is clear.

My wife is Californian, She is a proud American with Romanian Jewish ancestry. She advises folks of this a lot but she understands the difference between having ancestry and hailing from that (perhaps to make yourself sound more windswept and interesting?)

We have the same issue in the West of Scotland with the “Plastic Paddies” and the “Plastic Ulstermen” who talk up Ireland (albeit different parts) at the demise of their own country, bang on about a political situation they know hee-haw about and give a very distorted view, based on the propaganda they have been fed from their parents or the guys from the pub, or basically wherever they get counsel. This is not an exclusive one way trait, us Scots do it also!

I think that if you are not born in Scotland you are not Scottish, end of! You may have roots that are from Scotland and that is great! Braveheart the movie is something that I don’t rate as a movie but I am the first to admit, it did wonders for the tourist industry. Brought a whole new wave of folks trying to see where they came from!

I will give you an amusing story about something that happened in Southern California back in 2004 when I was silly enough to wear my kilt in the States.

A woman screeched to a halt in her 4 x 4 and parked rather hastily.

She gets out of the car shaking and pointing at me and begins to bellow “kilt, Scottish” (I should have seen this as a warning sign but I didn’t!)

I replied “yes, that’s correct”

Lady replies “I’m Scottish”

I said “great, where were you born?” (noticing the American accent)

She said “LA”

I said “Have you ever been there?”

She said “No”

Before I could ask her claim to Scottish-ness she interjected with “My great grand daddy, he was born in Dublin”

I was polite and did not bring her down. (took amazing will power I tell you)

[richardcorse]

an excellent post.I too am aware of the IGNORANCE of many who have ancestry.Ireland Scotland, they always mix them up.

Funilly enough, in Israel which is still a melting pot of peoples from all over the world, everyone here is PROUD of their ancestry.In fact it almost becomes racism in one way or another, as each person strives to show off his ancestry.

corse

[LongHairedBeardedKiltie]

Originally Posted by richardcorse

an excellent post.I too am aware of the IGNORANCE of many who have ancestry.Ireland Scotland, they always mix them up.

Funilly enough, in Israel which is still a melting pot of peoples from all over the world, everyone here is PROUD of their ancestry.In fact it almost becomes racism in one way or another, as each person strives to show off his ancestry.

corse

There is a certain amount of ignorance. It certainly doesn't help when folks assume 60% and don't research the other 40%

Israel, thats a whole different story. Since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, there have been a positive migration back to thier roots. In fact it is even encouraged by the powers that be in Israel. My wife is decended from Romanian Jew and she is the last generation that could in all good faith claim some sort of link to being Jewish.

Now having your great (x10) Grannie sailing from Greenock or Galway makes you about as authentically Scottish or Irish as me going into McDonalds and declaring myself a chesseburger.