[LisaMos]

Originally Posted by quizmasterchris

Lisa -

The link posted is not bringing me to the quote posted - maybe something more specific is needed? It seems (without seeing it hard to say) that you're claiming that one of the thousands of documents generated every day by low-level office workers containing that sentence is the official pronoucement of the PM regarding the composition of the UK..? This is a bit like claiming that Obama himself prepares wheat production reports by the Department of Agriculture.

[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Number10.gov.uk » countries within a country

No, I didn't "claim" anything of the kind. I presented evidence to support my position. This page uses the common speech to explain to the visiting public what the UK is. I do consider the official website of the PM to be a reliable source of information. You can see the quote right here:

"The United Kingdom is made up of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."

I have also attached a screenshot of the page.

Originally Posted by quizmasterchris

What I can see at that link is a statement from the PM about getting "Britain's" economy moving. Are you interpreting that as an official prouncement from the PM that Northern Ireland's economy will be excluded from these plans?

"Britain" is a common way of referring to the whole of the UK in common speech.

Originally Posted by quizmasterchris

That's in no way a document that declares the constituent parts of the UK to be units called a "country." As Crofter has pointed out, the documents regarding the Scottish Parliament "studiously avoid" (his words) "country" and "government" as regards Scotland.

That's one way of looking at it. My personal opinion is that it has more to do with the etymology and evolution of the word "country" in the older documents, and the use of formal speech in newer documents.

Again, my point is, and has always been, what "country" means in common speech. Crofter also refers to Scotland as "a country" and "his country." Crofter's comments also support my position.

Interestingly, these documents do not refer to the United Kingdom as a "country," either. If official documents are "proof" of your position, they also prove Duthill's.

Originally Posted by quizmasterchris

You've previously stated on my blog (at least some of the time, hard to keep track...) that the UK is a country comprised of 4 countries, for a total of 5. Recent posters are claiming that the UK isn't a country. You folks need to get together and get your story straight.

I'm not sure what your point is here. The references I have presented, including the one above say four countries. I don't know where you're getting five from, unless you're adding the UK to itself, which is a bit of a stretch.

The UK as I understand it (and as it understands itself) is that four non-sovereign countries are united into one sovereign state. Hence "countries within a country."[/quote]

Originally Posted by quizmasterchris

Again, even though you are directly contradicting each other as much as you are me, none of you dare call each other out on that because as long as anyone claims that Scotland is a country you don't seem to need a cohesive how or why for that statement.

The use of an alternate term is not a contradiction.

Originally Posted by quizmasterchris

So now Northern Ireland is a country again, according to you? Because some of the references you threw at me on my blog stated that Northern Ireland is not a country, and some of them, like this one, do. Some of your references you like for the definition of "country" call Wales a country and others don't. One of your references on my blog was either so old or so wrong that it listed "Ireland" - not Northern, the whole thing - as a "country in the UK."

"According to me"? None of this is for me to decide. Various references have different designations for Northern Ireland. Some call it a country, others call it something else. I don't have a problem with any of them.

The OED reference maybe outdated, however, the definition remains valid. Ireland was indeed a country of the UK, perfectly demonstrating how the word "country" has been used for a very long time.

Now, please answer the direct question above:
Why is the website of the Prime Minister "wrong" about the UK's definition of itself as presented in the common speech?